EVE Search - Shiva: Agents'n'Dungeons

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Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.12 20:55:00 - [1] One of the Shiva features is Dungeons, Complexes, or whatever the buzzword-of-the-week is. While I can't say I find it highly likely that they will be of great impact on agent runners for the first few weeks of Shiva, I suspect and hope that they will be the cornerstone of all PVE and especially agent missions in the future. For those of you who are familiar with scenario missions (a rarity in many regions of space) Dungeon Missions are similar but a few steps beyond. Dungeons may be spawned dynamically, so agent missions using these will not be subject to griefing problems or require abominable travel times merely to locate a scenario. Dungeons will generally be setup with gameplay similar to dungeons in land-locked games. Rooms, doors, monsters, traps, treasure chests, etc. will be implemented in space-friendly manners. Dungeons will primarily be seen in agent missions through important missions and level 4 missions. See important/storyline thread, however, too be posted. The future of dungeons in the agent system has yet to be finally specced out, but probably we will move as much of the mission content into the dungeon system as possible, adding more complex in-space interactions to missions. I'd predict that this will be a post-launch Shiva task to be completed before Kali starts up full force.
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.12 20:55:00 - [2] One of the Shiva features is Dungeons, Complexes, or whatever the buzzword-of-the-week is. While I can't say I find it highly likely that they will be of great impact on agent runners for the first few weeks of Shiva, I suspect and hope that they will be the cornerstone of all PVE and especially agent missions in the future. For those of you who are familiar with scenario missions (a rarity in many regions of space) Dungeon Missions are similar but a few steps beyond. Dungeons may be spawned dynamically, so agent missions using these will not be subject to griefing problems or require abominable travel times merely to locate a scenario. Dungeons will generally be setup with gameplay similar to dungeons in land-locked games. Rooms, doors, monsters, traps, treasure chests, etc. will be implemented in space-friendly manners. Dungeons will primarily be seen in agent missions through important missions and level 4 missions. See important/storyline thread, however, too be posted. The future of dungeons in the agent system has yet to be finally specced out, but probably we will move as much of the mission content into the dungeon system as possible, adding more complex in-space interactions to missions. I'd predict that this will be a post-launch Shiva task to be completed before Kali starts up full force.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.12 20:55:00 - [3] One of the Shiva features is Dungeons, Complexes, or whatever the buzzword-of-the-week is. While I can't say I find it highly likely that they will be of great impact on agent runners for the first few weeks of Shiva, I suspect and hope that they will be the cornerstone of all PVE and especially agent missions in the future. For those of you who are familiar with scenario missions (a rarity in many regions of space) Dungeon Missions are similar but a few steps beyond. Dungeons may be spawned dynamically, so agent missions using these will not be subject to griefing problems or require abominable travel times merely to locate a scenario. Dungeons will generally be setup with gameplay similar to dungeons in land-locked games. Rooms, doors, monsters, traps, treasure chests, etc. will be implemented in space-friendly manners. Dungeons will primarily be seen in agent missions through important missions and level 4 missions. See important/storyline thread, however, too be posted. The future of dungeons in the agent system has yet to be finally specced out, but probably we will move as much of the mission content into the dungeon system as possible, adding more complex in-space interactions to missions. I'd predict that this will be a post-launch Shiva task to be completed before Kali starts up full force.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.13 08:33:00 - [4] Originally by: JP Beauregard Originally by: S'Daria Any new content is good. But please don't call them Dungeons... Complexes, complexes, complexes!!! Actually, and even though "complex" appears to be a countable noun, the plural "complexes" sounds rather offensive to the latent Latin undercurrent of my consciousness. Although it's of course a fun word to say with a Gollum accent. Can we maybe try the military synonym "installations" given that there is a combat element involved? The problem with Complexes (other than the implication of mental ailments) is also that alot of items start popping up in them such as 'Complex Wall', 'Complex Bunker', etc. which implies that the meaning is 'Complicated'. Anyhow, the name used for complexes/dungeons inhouse changes twice a week. Haven't got a clue what the final blurb will be. Usually we just refer to them as dungeons internally, and leave the marketspeak to the marketeers . On that note, keep in mind that even though Zrakor and I will undoubtedly refer to them as dungeons, this is not going to be the final name.
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.13 08:33:00 - [5] Originally by: JP Beauregard Originally by: S'Daria Any new content is good. But please don't call them Dungeons... Complexes, complexes, complexes!!! Actually, and even though "complex" appears to be a countable noun, the plural "complexes" sounds rather offensive to the latent Latin undercurrent of my consciousness. Although it's of course a fun word to say with a Gollum accent. Can we maybe try the military synonym "installations" given that there is a combat element involved? The problem with Complexes (other than the implication of mental ailments) is also that alot of items start popping up in them such as 'Complex Wall', 'Complex Bunker', etc. which implies that the meaning is 'Complicated'. Anyhow, the name used for complexes/dungeons inhouse changes twice a week. Haven't got a clue what the final blurb will be. Usually we just refer to them as dungeons internally, and leave the marketspeak to the marketeers . On that note, keep in mind that even though Zrakor and I will undoubtedly refer to them as dungeons, this is not going to be the final name.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.13 08:33:00 - [6] Originally by: JP Beauregard Originally by: S'Daria Any new content is good. But please don't call them Dungeons... Complexes, complexes, complexes!!! Actually, and even though "complex" appears to be a countable noun, the plural "complexes" sounds rather offensive to the latent Latin undercurrent of my consciousness. Although it's of course a fun word to say with a Gollum accent. Can we maybe try the military synonym "installations" given that there is a combat element involved? The problem with Complexes (other than the implication of mental ailments) is also that alot of items start popping up in them such as 'Complex Wall', 'Complex Bunker', etc. which implies that the meaning is 'Complicated'. Anyhow, the name used for complexes/dungeons inhouse changes twice a week. Haven't got a clue what the final blurb will be. Usually we just refer to them as dungeons internally, and leave the marketspeak to the marketeers . On that note, keep in mind that even though Zrakor and I will undoubtedly refer to them as dungeons, this is not going to be the final name.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.13 20:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Dirtball Are there dungeons static in location and completely unrelated to agents? cause that would be super Being authored as we speak.
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.13 20:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Dirtball Are there dungeons static in location and completely unrelated to agents? cause that would be super Being authored as we speak.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.13 20:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Dirtball Are there dungeons static in location and completely unrelated to agents? cause that would be super Being authored as we speak.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.17 15:17:00 - [10] Btw. seems like the marketing term for them is "Deadspace Complexes".
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.17 15:17:00 - [11] Btw. seems like the marketing term for them is "Deadspace Complexes".

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.17 15:17:00 - [12] Btw. seems like the marketing term for them is "Deadspace Complexes".

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.19 15:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Droidster Will there be "monsters" too? I can see it now: treasure chests guarded by animatronic dragons containing belly button implants that make you invisible. This is too wierd for words. There will indeed be monsters. Monsters in EVE terms are just NPC ships. Treasure chests in EVE terms are various spawn containers, flotsam, etc.
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.19 15:53:00 - [14] Originally by: Droidster Will there be "monsters" too? I can see it now: treasure chests guarded by animatronic dragons containing belly button implants that make you invisible. This is too wierd for words. There will indeed be monsters. Monsters in EVE terms are just NPC ships. Treasure chests in EVE terms are various spawn containers, flotsam, etc.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.19 15:53:00 - [15] Originally by: Droidster Will there be "monsters" too? I can see it now: treasure chests guarded by animatronic dragons containing belly button implants that make you invisible. This is too wierd for words. There will indeed be monsters. Monsters in EVE terms are just NPC ships. Treasure chests in EVE terms are various spawn containers, flotsam, etc.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.22 08:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Mirelath Sorry if this is obvious or has already been asked, but complexes have been the number one thing I've been looking forward to, with their different types, different difficulty levels, their involvement with agent missions and so on. The thing I've been wondering, and I've seen different opinions/answers on this is whether complexes or "dungeons" will be only available through agents, or whether we can go looking for complexes, say in higher security space for newer players, and have a go at them WITHOUT having to go through an agent (agents seem to hate me)? Thanks It has already been asked, and the answer is yes, there will be dungeons that do not require agents.
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.22 08:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Mirelath Sorry if this is obvious or has already been asked, but complexes have been the number one thing I've been looking forward to, with their different types, different difficulty levels, their involvement with agent missions and so on. The thing I've been wondering, and I've seen different opinions/answers on this is whether complexes or "dungeons" will be only available through agents, or whether we can go looking for complexes, say in higher security space for newer players, and have a go at them WITHOUT having to go through an agent (agents seem to hate me)? Thanks It has already been asked, and the answer is yes, there will be dungeons that do not require agents.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.22 08:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Mirelath Sorry if this is obvious or has already been asked, but complexes have been the number one thing I've been looking forward to, with their different types, different difficulty levels, their involvement with agent missions and so on. The thing I've been wondering, and I've seen different opinions/answers on this is whether complexes or "dungeons" will be only available through agents, or whether we can go looking for complexes, say in higher security space for newer players, and have a go at them WITHOUT having to go through an agent (agents seem to hate me)? Thanks It has already been asked, and the answer is yes, there will be dungeons that do not require agents.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.22 08:50:00 - [19] Originally by: S'Daria Do you know the ETA on "Complexes"...we're getting offly close to the Novemember 3rd release. If they are not complete I think many people would rather it be posponed and done right instead of ... well you know. Cheers. I'd expect that most of the dungeon-ization of agent missions will actually occur in the first few weeks after launch. At launch, probably most "storyline"/"important" missions should use dungeons where appropriate. It's not planned that way, but I'm more of a "the money ain't in the bank until it's in the bank" type of guy. Until I see a fair number of dungeons with my own eyes, I'm not banking on them. To counter this risk, I had originally asked Zrakor to implement level 4 missions and storyline missions such that they are first completely implemented using standard encounters, but plan on replacing the standard encounters with dungeons when they are ready.
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.22 08:50:00 - [20] Originally by: S'Daria Do you know the ETA on "Complexes"...we're getting offly close to the Novemember 3rd release. If they are not complete I think many people would rather it be posponed and done right instead of ... well you know. Cheers. I'd expect that most of the dungeon-ization of agent missions will actually occur in the first few weeks after launch. At launch, probably most "storyline"/"important" missions should use dungeons where appropriate. It's not planned that way, but I'm more of a "the money ain't in the bank until it's in the bank" type of guy. Until I see a fair number of dungeons with my own eyes, I'm not banking on them. To counter this risk, I had originally asked Zrakor to implement level 4 missions and storyline missions such that they are first completely implemented using standard encounters, but plan on replacing the standard encounters with dungeons when they are ready.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.22 08:50:00 - [21] Originally by: S'Daria Do you know the ETA on "Complexes"...we're getting offly close to the Novemember 3rd release. If they are not complete I think many people would rather it be posponed and done right instead of ... well you know. Cheers. I'd expect that most of the dungeon-ization of agent missions will actually occur in the first few weeks after launch. At launch, probably most "storyline"/"important" missions should use dungeons where appropriate. It's not planned that way, but I'm more of a "the money ain't in the bank until it's in the bank" type of guy. Until I see a fair number of dungeons with my own eyes, I'm not banking on them. To counter this risk, I had originally asked Zrakor to implement level 4 missions and storyline missions such that they are first completely implemented using standard encounters, but plan on replacing the standard encounters with dungeons when they are ready.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.22 08:56:00 - [22] Originally by: Dame Sneakers From reading this it seems that "Deadspace Complexes" might be small and require a close range setup. I mean in a Dungeon you don't usually use a lot of long range weapons, those are for outside above ground fighting. So, will "Deadspace Complexes" require a close range combat setup? If so, that sort of hinders players with ships/skills/setup designed for long range combat. The "Deadspace" in Deadspace Complexes does indeed refer to this property. Deadspace is very hostile to warp fields. Crossing the "room boundaries" will also generally put you in relatively close quarters to NPCs. Thus it can be safely assumed that if you aren't rigged for close combat, you're probably going to be in trouble in dungeons that are balanced for larger and more powerful ships. This will be highly dungeon-dependant, but the general rule of thumb is that dungeons are intended to be balanced environments where no single tactic should do the trick. Kiters beware
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.22 08:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Dame Sneakers From reading this it seems that "Deadspace Complexes" might be small and require a close range setup. I mean in a Dungeon you don't usually use a lot of long range weapons, those are for outside above ground fighting. So, will "Deadspace Complexes" require a close range combat setup? If so, that sort of hinders players with ships/skills/setup designed for long range combat. The "Deadspace" in Deadspace Complexes does indeed refer to this property. Deadspace is very hostile to warp fields. Crossing the "room boundaries" will also generally put you in relatively close quarters to NPCs. Thus it can be safely assumed that if you aren't rigged for close combat, you're probably going to be in trouble in dungeons that are balanced for larger and more powerful ships. This will be highly dungeon-dependant, but the general rule of thumb is that dungeons are intended to be balanced environments where no single tactic should do the trick. Kiters beware

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.22 08:56:00 - [24] Originally by: Dame Sneakers From reading this it seems that "Deadspace Complexes" might be small and require a close range setup. I mean in a Dungeon you don't usually use a lot of long range weapons, those are for outside above ground fighting. So, will "Deadspace Complexes" require a close range combat setup? If so, that sort of hinders players with ships/skills/setup designed for long range combat. The "Deadspace" in Deadspace Complexes does indeed refer to this property. Deadspace is very hostile to warp fields. Crossing the "room boundaries" will also generally put you in relatively close quarters to NPCs. Thus it can be safely assumed that if you aren't rigged for close combat, you're probably going to be in trouble in dungeons that are balanced for larger and more powerful ships. This will be highly dungeon-dependant, but the general rule of thumb is that dungeons are intended to be balanced environments where no single tactic should do the trick. Kiters beware

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.28 13:14:00 - [25] Originally by: JP Beauregard Originally by: S'Daria There's no point for them to implement something that we don't want. There is no point to asking what "we" want because "we" are a small (though in part annoyingly noisy and meddlesome) minority that is in no way representative of the game's audience. Keep in mind though that while our milage varies in this area, we consider it of utmost importance to take into consideration what you all want. Originally by: JP Beauregard And there is no point to detailing every aspect of a game system, especially on the content side. I'm all for explaining the framework of a game system and the functionality of individual elements. But that's a long way from pre-digesting and regurgitating every minute detail to the point of making discovery impossible. There is a reason why you won't see walkthroughs for MMOGs... Too true... and this is indeed mostly a content issue. The "rules" will be entirely complex specific, and we will generally try to make them well balanced. System-wise, you can expect a deadspace complex to behave pretty much the same as last time you went there, thus you can learn that this particular complex is well suited for long range while that complex requires alot of short range combat. We're aiming for 'fair fights'.
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.28 13:14:00 - [26] Originally by: JP Beauregard Originally by: S'Daria There's no point for them to implement something that we don't want. There is no point to asking what "we" want because "we" are a small (though in part annoyingly noisy and meddlesome) minority that is in no way representative of the game's audience. Keep in mind though that while our milage varies in this area, we consider it of utmost importance to take into consideration what you all want. Originally by: JP Beauregard And there is no point to detailing every aspect of a game system, especially on the content side. I'm all for explaining the framework of a game system and the functionality of individual elements. But that's a long way from pre-digesting and regurgitating every minute detail to the point of making discovery impossible. There is a reason why you won't see walkthroughs for MMOGs... Too true... and this is indeed mostly a content issue. The "rules" will be entirely complex specific, and we will generally try to make them well balanced. System-wise, you can expect a deadspace complex to behave pretty much the same as last time you went there, thus you can learn that this particular complex is well suited for long range while that complex requires alot of short range combat. We're aiming for 'fair fights'.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.28 13:14:00 - [27] Originally by: JP Beauregard Originally by: S'Daria There's no point for them to implement something that we don't want. There is no point to asking what "we" want because "we" are a small (though in part annoyingly noisy and meddlesome) minority that is in no way representative of the game's audience. Keep in mind though that while our milage varies in this area, we consider it of utmost importance to take into consideration what you all want. Originally by: JP Beauregard And there is no point to detailing every aspect of a game system, especially on the content side. I'm all for explaining the framework of a game system and the functionality of individual elements. But that's a long way from pre-digesting and regurgitating every minute detail to the point of making discovery impossible. There is a reason why you won't see walkthroughs for MMOGs... Too true... and this is indeed mostly a content issue. The "rules" will be entirely complex specific, and we will generally try to make them well balanced. System-wise, you can expect a deadspace complex to behave pretty much the same as last time you went there, thus you can learn that this particular complex is well suited for long range while that complex requires alot of short range combat. We're aiming for 'fair fights'.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.30 00:46:00 - [28] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 29/10/2004 21:25:36 Originally by: Papa Smurf Dungeons may be spawned dynamically, so agent missions using these will not be subject to griefing problems or require abominable travel times merely to locate a scenario. Wow, now I'm going to have to look for the quote by the dev that guaranteed us that complexes wouldn't be "instanced" when they first announced the concept. Instancing is a terrible idea for EvE. The only thing that makes EVE truely unique is the forced co-existence of PvP'ers and PvE'ers. Instancing destroys that..you might as well make a carebear server and a PvP server if you are going to do that...(don't take that suggestion seriously because that truely would be the death of eve.) EDIT: I FOUND IT Originally by: Hellmar There is no, and never will be, private instancing in EVE. - EVE Dev Team, keeping it real... Please Hellmar, save us from instancing. Granted, dynamically spawned complexes isn't "privately" instanced, but as far as game play is concerned there is no real difference. Shamis As the first line of the EULA says "Game Experience May Change During Online Play". Anyway, at second thought, system scanning allows you to locate a dynamically spawned dungeon, warp to it, enter the dungeon and find the poor mission runner and murder his helpless little soul. But the dungeons are however dynamic and instanced in the sense that you can't simply camp and wait idly for helpless n00bies to wander into your trap. You'll actually have to work for it by scanning and hunting. Likewise the spawnpoints are dynamic, so you'll have a little more trouble gatecamping the poor n00bs, as they may not all have to travel to a well known spot in the middle of nowhere. There'll be a balancing act for the first few weeks, no doubt, but it'll be interesting to see how this turns out and which group of players screams the loudest, or ...
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.30 00:46:00 - [29] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 29/10/2004 21:25:36 Originally by: Papa Smurf Dungeons may be spawned dynamically, so agent missions using these will not be subject to griefing problems or require abominable travel times merely to locate a scenario. Wow, now I'm going to have to look for the quote by the dev that guaranteed us that complexes wouldn't be "instanced" when they first announced the concept. Instancing is a terrible idea for EvE. The only thing that makes EVE truely unique is the forced co-existence of PvP'ers and PvE'ers. Instancing destroys that..you might as well make a carebear server and a PvP server if you are going to do that...(don't take that suggestion seriously because that truely would be the death of eve.) EDIT: I FOUND IT Originally by: Hellmar There is no, and never will be, private instancing in EVE. - EVE Dev Team, keeping it real... Please Hellmar, save us from instancing. Granted, dynamically spawned complexes isn't "privately" instanced, but as far as game play is concerned there is no real difference. Shamis As the first line of the EULA says "Game Experience May Change During Online Play". Anyway, at second thought, system scanning allows you to locate a dynamically spawned dungeon, warp to it, enter the dungeon and find the poor mission runner and murder his helpless little soul. But the dungeons are however dynamic and instanced in the sense that you can't simply camp and wait idly for helpless n00bies to wander into your trap. You'll actually have to work for it by scanning and hunting. Likewise the spawnpoints are dynamic, so you'll have a little more trouble gatecamping the poor n00bs, as they may not all have to travel to a well known spot in the middle of nowhere. There'll be a balancing act for the first few weeks, no doubt, but it'll be interesting to see how this turns out and which group of players screams the loudest, or ...

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.10.30 00:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 29/10/2004 21:25:36 Originally by: Papa Smurf Dungeons may be spawned dynamically, so agent missions using these will not be subject to griefing problems or require abominable travel times merely to locate a scenario. Wow, now I'm going to have to look for the quote by the dev that guaranteed us that complexes wouldn't be "instanced" when they first announced the concept. Instancing is a terrible idea for EvE. The only thing that makes EVE truely unique is the forced co-existence of PvP'ers and PvE'ers. Instancing destroys that..you might as well make a carebear server and a PvP server if you are going to do that...(don't take that suggestion seriously because that truely would be the death of eve.) EDIT: I FOUND IT Originally by: Hellmar There is no, and never will be, private instancing in EVE. - EVE Dev Team, keeping it real... Please Hellmar, save us from instancing. Granted, dynamically spawned complexes isn't "privately" instanced, but as far as game play is concerned there is no real difference. Shamis As the first line of the EULA says "Game Experience May Change During Online Play". Anyway, at second thought, system scanning allows you to locate a dynamically spawned dungeon, warp to it, enter the dungeon and find the poor mission runner and murder his helpless little soul. But the dungeons are however dynamic and instanced in the sense that you can't simply camp and wait idly for helpless n00bies to wander into your trap. You'll actually have to work for it by scanning and hunting. Likewise the spawnpoints are dynamic, so you'll have a little more trouble gatecamping the poor n00bs, as they may not all have to travel to a well known spot in the middle of nowhere. There'll be a balancing act for the first few weeks, no doubt, but it'll be interesting to see how this turns out and which group of players screams the loudest, or ...

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.11.11 19:43:00 - [31] Originally by: The Sloth Papa, I just wanted to confirm whether or not Concord would turn up if a player initiated a hostile action against another player inside a complex in a high security system (> 0.5) ? The Sloth. I honestly don't know. On the one hand, they shouldn't be able to warp in. On the other hand, that would be unacceptable. Either way, try it out on Singularity and file a bug report if it doesn't turn out to your pleasing
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.11.11 19:43:00 - [32] Originally by: The Sloth Papa, I just wanted to confirm whether or not Concord would turn up if a player initiated a hostile action against another player inside a complex in a high security system (> 0.5) ? The Sloth. I honestly don't know. On the one hand, they shouldn't be able to warp in. On the other hand, that would be unacceptable. Either way, try it out on Singularity and file a bug report if it doesn't turn out to your pleasing

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.11.11 19:43:00 - [33] Originally by: The Sloth Papa, I just wanted to confirm whether or not Concord would turn up if a player initiated a hostile action against another player inside a complex in a high security system (> 0.5) ? The Sloth. I honestly don't know. On the one hand, they shouldn't be able to warp in. On the other hand, that would be unacceptable. Either way, try it out on Singularity and file a bug report if it doesn't turn out to your pleasing

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.11.11 19:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Lord Anubis Papa is it true that level 4 agents in empire space are gonna be nerfed either less bs spawns or crappy loot drops. If so why? i do hope not as 0.0 space at the moe holds to many cards They will be nerfed somewhat so that there is slightly less rampant loot dropping, as BS pirates are by default configged based on the fact that you rarely meet them, while through agent missions you have pretty much control over how frequently you meet them. Shouldn't be an awesome difference though.
Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.11.11 19:45:00 - [35] Originally by: Lord Anubis Papa is it true that level 4 agents in empire space are gonna be nerfed either less bs spawns or crappy loot drops. If so why? i do hope not as 0.0 space at the moe holds to many cards They will be nerfed somewhat so that there is slightly less rampant loot dropping, as BS pirates are by default configged based on the fact that you rarely meet them, while through agent missions you have pretty much control over how frequently you meet them. Shouldn't be an awesome difference though.

Papa Smurf	Posted - 2004.11.11 19:45:00 - [36] Originally by: Lord Anubis Papa is it true that level 4 agents in empire space are gonna be nerfed either less bs spawns or crappy loot drops. If so why? i do hope not as 0.0 space at the moe holds to many cards They will be nerfed somewhat so that there is slightly less rampant loot dropping, as BS pirates are by default configged based on the fact that you rarely meet them, while through agent missions you have pretty much control over how frequently you meet them. Shouldn't be an awesome difference though.

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